Beuys

Hello.

It's just like Hollywood here.

The anonymous viewer is back there, yeah?

I mean if you're...

Let's say you're standing in front of a group of people.

Then it's best to reach them all at the same time.

That's best.

You have an idea of what's going on inside of people.

Some people are very good at that. They have this special talent.

For example, they walk into a room

and can instantly sense the inner questions of everyone present.

I mean it's...

There's been a lot of that.

That's it!

Beuys speaking.

Good morning, Mr. Beuys. Good morning.

Our colleague from Midday Journal

to Professor Joseph Beuys.

Mr. Beuys, how popular would you say you are?

How should I know? What do you want me to say?

Do you wank me to say "Force 12" or something?

Why not express it in wind force?

All right, so I'd say I've reached the end of the scale,

about hurricane force.

And as you know, storm comes before hurricane.

Mr. Beuys, thank you very much

and I wish you continuing success.

It was meant to be an event and that's what it is.

A German event for New York. Beuys is here and everybody knows it.

Joseph Beuys is exhibiting his art at the Guggenheim Museum

and New York's press is doing all it can to help explain it.

...that make fun of this whole idea of your being an artist.

If we could realize these objectives...

Hanging, lying and standing on a 432-meter continuous ramp

is almost his entire output of graphic art and sculpture.

Waiting upstairs are the felt-covered piano from 1966,

as well as the "Fat Chair" and the "Honey Pump."

"Forget the conventional idea of art.

Anyone can be an artist.

Anything can be art, especially anything that conserves energy."

This is the shortcut formula for art.

Where Beuys is concerned, the basic philosophy

is this attempt to demonstrate how far you can push sculpture

as a means of communication.

Not as sculpture itself, but as a vehicle for all these different themes.

Well, it was an extraordinary feeling

to meet someone of a different generation, a different nationality,

a different background completely

who felt so completely on the same wavelength.

Just very, very extraordinary empathy...

in language and ideas.

It was wonderful to be working with someone

whose range of reference was so wide, you know.

And he was at the top of what he wanted to do.

He was riding the world.

He was getting out beyond the reach of the fatal.

The magazine Capital named him Number 1

in the international art business,

ousting Warhol and Rauschenberg from the top positions.

When did they let him out of the hospital? Do you know when?

It's like the remnants of a construction site. I was disappointed.

It was fascinating.

The felt piano was more accessible than other objects.

For me, it's a new way of thinking about art.

...- but it stays the same? - Right. You empty it.

You drink the contents and throw away the cap. That's what's left.

But you're aware that you're moving away from the traditional concept of art?

Yes, of course... And you really don't care that people say,

"What Beuys is doing has nothing to do with art."

Or do you...? Of course I don't care.

Art, yes, but in a totally different sense.

The concept of what art is has expanded to such a degree

that, for me, there's nothing left of it.

But within a comprehensive system

it's possible that a traditional concept of art

might be able to keep its place,

in a hermetically sealed form.

It would circle around like an atom,

somewhere inside this system.

But the concept of art has been expanded so far

that every normal situation is art.

Every situation or action...? Yes.

It's no longer an object that you hang on a wall...

Now if one takes this position of an expanded concept of art,

which is exactly my position anyway,

most people will regard it as esoteric,

insane, remote,

marginal, peripheral...

And so on and so forth.

That's obvious.

Mr. Beuys...

At last year's art fair in Cologne,

you exhibited a work that consisted of a Volkswagen bus...

out of which are coming a large number...

Maybe 20, correct me if I'm wrong...

40! ...40 small sleds,

all of them exactly the same,

and I found it amusing.

That isn't what I wanted to say... But that's good!

No! But that's great! Why not?

But... Do you want to stamp out laughter and fun,

to have a revolution without laughter?

- I have a specific question... - I want to get my money's worth out of this revolution!

I believe you.

Is that...? And I want others to get their money's worth!

I believe you. But I want to ask you...

Why didn't you use baby buggies?

Why not?

Because I chose the subject.

You should do something with baby buggies!

And see if you can make something that interests people!

Max Bill...

I agree with Mr. Beuys that we're here to think.

But it's not necessary to think until daybreak.

So...

If we take what Picasso said,

"The purpose of art is not to decorate our apartments,

it's a weapon against the enemy."

Who is the enemy?

Professor Gehlen, you said the boundaries of art had expanded enormously

and that you no longer feel provoked by art.

Do you feel challenged by his works,

or do you see his art, or anti-art,

as a stimulating element? Or...

What's my work got to do with anything?

It's irrelevant. We're talking about a theory.

We're talking about something far beyond my work.

Let's throw my work out of the window!

And your work as well! Maybe...

- What is it you want? - I want to expand people's consciousness,

especially regarding the current political situation.

Okay... I don't believe we live in a democracy.

I don't believe we're taught to be free human beings

due to our party-political bureaucracy.

- I'm willing to provoke right now! - Me, too!

First of all, I want to return to the original topic.

If you want to expand or change people's consciousness,

- you must know in which direction.

That's why I'm prepared to talk until daybreak.

No, tell us now! Aha, in one sentence.

Now!

People don't understand you?

I always say that people understand me very well.

But they're afraid of it? No.

But... But then we need to...

It's not a bad thing if people get aggressive.

Let them be aggressive.

At least that gets you talking to them.

You have to provoke it.

Provocation always causes something to come alive.

Maybe they smash their china at home.

Or maybe they call me up on the phone.

It always happens after I've been on TV, "Idiot!"

They call you at home? Sure, whenever I've been on TV.

"Asshole!"

Yes... Just a second...

For many people, art means the freedom of randomness,

"Ah, art. I can do whatever I want."

But what's the point of art if nothing comes of it?

So whenever people ask me if I'm an artist,

I say, "Oh, cut the crap."

I'm not here to decorate these foul, moldering, stinking systems.

I'm not an artist at all.

Except if we say that everyone is an artist.

I buy into that, but only then.

I never said everyone is a poet, a painter, a sculptor.

I mean social art when I say everyone is an artist.

I find what you're saying to be terribly abstract and intellectual...

No.

I'm talking about the emergence of a new art

where everyone not only can participate but must participate.

He was a totally reasonable person,

not at all strange or freakish.

To me he was always totally reasonable.

The opposite of what everyone else said.

"Crazy," "strange," "peculiar."

He was the first sane person I'd ever met. He was totally sane.

And right after our first one-on-one conversation at documenta , I knew,

"You can trust him completely."

I thought that was great.

It had nothing to do with his aura.

I just thought he was someone who was surrounded and courted by people and...

And then he had this incredible, instinctive self-assurance

and this penetrating gaze.

And...

And a really sharp mind.

You need both, otherwise there's no point. You're just a dreamer.

But he wasn't. He was and he wasn't at the same time.

I don't know how anyone can stand that.

He was totally consistent in his words and actions.

FOR THE DOCUMENTA 7,000 OAKS

You're serious?

If I say I'm going to plant 7,000 oaks, then I'm going to plant 7,000 oaks.

I think the project will take at least three years.

Thank you, Mr. Beuys.

- You know this project? - Yeah.

It started--

There is a small detail and illustrates a little bit my understanding of art.

I was invited very often to the documenta.

I was already invited in the '60s.