35 Up

I'm going to work in Woolworths.

- When I grow up I want to be an astronaut.

- When I get married I'd like to have 2 children.

My hearts desire is to see my Daddy.

I don't want to answer that.

- This is no ordinary outing at the zoo,

it's a very special occasion.

We've brought these children together for the

very first time.

They're like any other children except

that they come from startlingly different backgrounds.

Stop it at once.

- We've brought these children together

because we wanted a glimpse of England in the year 2000.

The shop steward and the executive

of the year 2000 are now 7 years old.

- In 1964 WORLD IN ACTION made 7 Up.

We have been back to film these children every 7 years.

They are now 35.

Give me a child until he is 7

and I will give you the man.

Is it important to fight, yes.

I want to be a jockey when I grow up,

yeah I want to be a jockey when I grow up.

- At 14 Tony was already an apprentice

at Tommy Gosling's racing stables in Epsom.

He left school at 15.

- This is a photo finish of when I rode at Newbury.

I'm the one with the white cap.

I was beaten a length and a half a third

and had a photo finish.

So I took it out of the box and kept it as a souvenir.

My greatest fulfilment in life, when I rode at Kempton

in the same race as Lester Piggott.

I was a naive wet behind the ears apprentice.

All my years from 7, all my ambitions fulfilled

in one moment and I eventually finished last.

Tailed off obviously but it

didn't make any difference to me.

Just to be part of it, be with the man himself.

Couldn't buy it, that was the proudest day of my whole life.

Tony's now 34.

At weekends he takes his girls to a stables

where the family keeps a couple of ponies.

What's it mean to you when you see the girls on a horse?

- There are times you look back and you look at them

and you see yourself in them all the time.

Wait come here.

Got down first didn't I.

Yeah.

When I was a kid right,

no one ever ever showed me how to ride a horse.

I had to go out and do it myself.

Just walk him, hold them legs nice and properly.

When I see them riding I sort of like

"Oh I taught them that"

and I see them doing this and I show them in another way.

Then once they learn it I sort of like pat

them on their bum

sort of put them on automatic pilot you know

and they're on their own.

But that's what life's all about isn't it?

Giving your kids all the opportunities

that give them the benefits that you never had.

Don't be afraid, never be afraid, they know.

Horses were my whole life, flesh, blood, in my veins,

it was you know all the smell everything.

Princess Anne to her horses and Lester Piggott

to his that's how I felt.

And you let it go?

I let it go.

- Sometimes on Saturday morning I go to the pictures.

Sometimes with my friend and sometimes with him.

You don't.

I do.

She don't, I don't ever see you.

You go to a different pictures.

Have you got a girlfriend?

No.

- Would you like to have a girlfriend?

No.

You understand the Four F's, Find them,

Feed them and Forget them.

The other F I'll let you use your own discrimination.

I mean, this one, I tried to do the Three Fs

but I couldn't forget her.

- I used to work in a pub just on a Friday night.

Barmaids, barmaiding and from there one night

I went to a discotheque.

He was in the pub earlier on

and that afterwards we went to a discotheque

and Tony was down there and I just,

from there I just that was it.

Couldn't get rid of him.

- We have our ups and downs, no more than anyone else.

I think you got to work at a marriage.

I think all marriages go through stages,

you can't stand each other, you go through,

I think, oh God, I hate him I wish he'd get out.

I do and I'm sure he does about me.

- I been in positions you know and it's hard to say

in front of Debbie but it's true, it's tempting,

you take the bait.

You know I go on holiday once a year with the boys type

of thing to Spain, Magaluf and we have a golf holiday.

All against Debbie's will but it's true,

I get in situations out there that you,

life is for the living.

And I come back, "Oh I know what you've been doing out

"there, you've been meeting all them birds",

and whatever and they look at you as if to say

"I know, and I don't want to know".

That's how it is.

Who's to say in another 10 years me

and him might have split up?

Quite possible.

You know, you don't know.

If you were to break up

what do you think it would be over?

Yeah, I think it's be the other party.

It wouldn't be for the kids cause the kids they're

everything, without anything prior to that.

Isn't it, I mean it'd break my heart.

Knowing that another man could come in here

and bring my kids up.

There's only one ambition really, I want a baby son

and if I see my baby son

then I'll see my ambition fulfilled.

No one knows that, only you now.

- Tony and Debbie had a son, Nicky,

who is now 13.

They have 2 daughters, Jody and Perry

and the family lives in North London.

- Now listen, on Saturday Tottenham have got the Arsenal.

- One, I was expecting on 28 UP wasn't I when you were

filmed that but I lost that baby.

I didn't feel that I could have any more.

I really didn't want any more.

But then anyway I did and I had Perry.

They are naughty, very naughty.

They're the naughtiest kids I know.

Nicky's like me, he's more placid but Jody's like

how he was when he was 7.

I do discipline them, you know, I smack them,

I put them in their rooms, I take things off of them.

I do it, I discipline them and he undoes it

so I'm fighting twice with them, it makes it harder for me

because he's too soft with them.

- Why do you think you're too soft with them?

Cause I love them so much.

Do you bring them up the way

that you were brought up?

- The upbringing I had I saw more dinner times

than dinners without any questions

and I did have my brothers clothes on my back for

you know hand me downs.

It's never done me no harm.

- I wouldn't have got away with my parents

what my kids get away with me.

Yeah but in saying that you do

give them everything possible.

All these designer clothes type of thing,

the Naff gear and Reebok trainers now my Nicky

plays football and she'll say "Oh Nicky wants some trainers

"have you got £70"?

and I'll say "What £70 for a pair of trainers,

"hold on there's a stall around there,

"same quality trainers for £24 or something".

She'll go "£24, oh no" she'll say

"He can't go to school wearing that rubbish".

She'll give them everything, got an old bike,

wants a chain putting on and a

few nuts tightening or whatever.

"Oh can't have that bike, get a new one"

then in the next Christmas comes up.

- Only cause you don't put the chain and bolts on.

Oh, I'm not having that one.

What will you do if you don't

make it as a jockey?

I don't know, if I know I couldn't be one

I'd get out of the game.

- What do you think you would do then?

Learn taxis.

- At 21 Tony was on the knowledge learning

to be a London Cabbie.

- If there's any person who thinks I can't be

a Cabbie then they're wrong.

I'm going to get that badge and I'm going

to put it right in their face.

Just to tell them how wrong they can be

and how underestimated I am.

At 28 he had his own cab.

Surprising who you pick up you see.

I once met Kojak I picked him up and Warren Mitchell,

Alf Garnett you know.

Debbie's working in the day so Debbie'll be

on her way home by 4 o'clock, the kids'll be

coming home for tea.

Debbie'll stop the cab outside,

come in and cook the dinner.